Optimistic Pricing In Edinburgh

[Guest An Bearin Bui]

Pricey relative to what exactly? Other properties for sale in Edinburgh or your own internal measure of what represents 'value'?. £400k 'done up' would represent a 20% drop on the £500k 'done up' it would have fetched 12 months ago. These are spacious properties-circa 1800 sq ft-they are not half a house as they were purpose built upper/lower villas. With 2-bed maindoor flats in marchmont still fetching well in excess of 300k I think this puts it in context.

Are you genuinely surprised that it will sell so easily? With all due respect you can't know that area/market very well.

I'm talking about fair value i.e. how much a property will sell for relative to rental value and return on money invested so yes, you're right, it's a good price for Edinburgh compared to the insanity of the last few years, but no, it's still not fair value. You could probably rent that place out (done up, it wouldn't rent in its current state) for £1500 per month, max. That would give it a value of £216,000-£270,000 depending i.e. 12-15 years worth of rent, which is the standard I use for estimating fair value on property (personally, for when I get around to buying myself).

Obviously Edinburgh city is a unique market full of delusional nutters who think that any property with more than 2 bedrooms is worth 1/2 a mil but I'm just still surprised at how far away from fair value property is. Not a reflection on your comments regarding the other overpriced properties that are still out there but just a comment on how out of line the Edinburgh market still is.

[fflump]

I'm talking about fair value i.e. how much a property will sell for relative to rental value and return on money invested so yes, you're right, it's a good price for Edinburgh compared to the insanity of the last few years, but no, it's still not fair value. You could probably rent that place out (done up, it wouldn't rent in its current state) for £1500 per month, max. That would give it a value of £216,000-£270,000 depending i.e. 12-15 years worth of rent, which is the standard I use for estimating fair value on property (personally, for when I get around to buying myself).

Obviously Edinburgh city is a unique market full of delusional nutters who think that any property with more than 2 bedrooms is worth 1/2 a mil but I'm just still surprised at how far away from fair value property is. Not a reflection on your comments regarding the other overpriced properties that are still out there but just a comment on how out of line the Edinburgh market still is.

Interesting comments but I think you are mistaken in assessing a property's value by relating it to what it will rent for. After all, neither price is any more reliable than the other. IMO you can't apply your 12-15 yr rule for all properties because different properties have different rental desirability. Cheaper properties offer higher rental yields because at that end of the market there are more people who can only afford to rent-hence you can get £500pcm for a 1-bed in gorgie. There isnt demand for 1500pcm places in the grange because if you can afford that many people can afford to buy.

Things also vary city to city. Abderdeen has higher rental yields due to the transient/contract nature of many of the workers-workers who nevertheless want to live in a nice place.

I agree that some people are delusional about the value of their place but many are not delusional. There is nothing delusional about the people that are selling this place. I agree though that many prices are a fair bit away from fair value because the market is basically ground to a halt until sellers start to budge on price.

[Muswell Hillbilly]

I just noticed this one whilst out and about this morning:

Abbotsford Park, Morningside – £620,000

It’s a conversion flat which has similarish layout and size to a two-bedroom tenement flat, but the space that would normally be the boxroom can be called a third bedroom, because it has a window. They want £620k for it! Also, it has really naff, chintzy decor.

Now, this is very interesting: look at the floorplan, which is rectangular (ignoring the ‘garden store’). Multiply the total width of the rooms across the flat (4.42 + 2.13 + 3.58) by the total length (5.71 + 3.73), and you get a total internal area of approximately 96 square metres. So how are they able to claim ‘approx. gross internal area’ of 149.57 square metres? Does anyone think it worth contacting the agents about this?

£620k for a glorified two-bed conversion in Morningside, though – doesn’t that just take the biscuit?

[Scunnered]

So how are they able to claim ‘approx. gross internal area’ of 149.57 square metres?

Maybe they're counting the walls and ceilings as well.

Edit. Eek! I've just had a look at the photos. Someone must have been to Versaiiles recently.

Edited June 29, 2009 by Scunnered

[TTD]

Now, this is very interesting: look at the floorplan, which is rectangular (ignoring the ‘garden store’). Multiply the total width of the rooms across the flat (4.42 + 2.13 + 3.58) by the total length (5.71 + 3.73), and you get a total internal area of approximately 96 square metres. So how are they able to claim ‘approx. gross internal area’ of 149.57 square metres? Does anyone think it worth contacting the agents about this?

£620k for a glorified two-bed conversion in Morningside, though – doesn’t that just take the biscuit?

The square footage figure is wrong as well - 33 x 31 approx = 1023 sq ft, and they claim 1610.....

Are they including the attic?

[TTD]

£6,458 per sq metre. Forgive me, but that seems a touch ..... high.

[geed]

I just noticed this one whilst out and about this morning:

Abbotsford Park, Morningside – £620,000

It’s a conversion flat which has similarish layout and size to a two-bedroom tenement flat, but the space that would normally be the boxroom can be called a third bedroom, because it has a window. They want £620k for it! Also, it has really naff, chintzy decor.

Now, this is very interesting: look at the floorplan, which is rectangular (ignoring the ‘garden store’). Multiply the total width of the rooms across the flat (4.42 + 2.13 + 3.58) by the total length (5.71 + 3.73), and you get a total internal area of approximately 96 square metres. So how are they able to claim ‘approx. gross internal area’ of 149.57 square metres? Does anyone think it worth contacting the agents about this?

£620k for a glorified two-bed conversion in Morningside, though – doesn’t that just take the biscuit?

Ah this flat was a feature article in one of those "quality" property supplements about 2-3 weeks ago. Pictures of the owners etc.... lots of b*llocks about having Alistair Darling, JK Rowling, and famous author bloke whos name fails me as your neighbours. A lot of money ..... bonkers.

Edited June 29, 2009 by geed

[fflump]

I just noticed this one whilst out and about this morning:

Abbotsford Park, Morningside – £620,000

It’s a conversion flat which has similarish layout and size to a two-bedroom tenement flat, but the space that would normally be the boxroom can be called a third bedroom, because it has a window. They want £620k for it! Also, it has really naff, chintzy decor.

Now, this is very interesting: look at the floorplan, which is rectangular (ignoring the ‘garden store’). Multiply the total width of the rooms across the flat (4.42 + 2.13 + 3.58) by the total length (5.71 + 3.73), and you get a total internal area of approximately 96 square metres. So how are they able to claim ‘approx. gross internal area’ of 149.57 square metres? Does anyone think it worth contacting the agents about this?

£620k for a glorified two-bed conversion in Morningside, though – doesn’t that just take the biscuit?

Unsurprisingly it has been for sale for some time. It is a highly desirable street but is grotesquely overpriced. Its appeal is severely limited by the fact that it has no garden to speak of, which hacks at least £150,000 off the price for starters.

[Muswell Hillbilly]

Ah this flat was a feature article in one of those "quality" property supplements about 2-3 weeks ago. Pictures of the owners etc.... lots of b*llocks about having Alistair Darling, JK Rowling, and famous author bloke whos name fails me as your neighbours. A lot of money ..... bonkers.

I’d have thought having Alistair Darling as a neighbour would knock a good fifty grand off the value.

Other famous author blokes who live in Merchiston (though Abbotsford Park is arguably Morningside) are Ian Rankin and Alexander McCall Smith, who, I remember reading once, happen to live nextdoor to one another.

Does anyone reckon it’s worth pursuing the issue of the stated floor area being overstated by about 60% though? Not that anyone in the UK pays attention to square metres or feet, as it’s the number of bedrooms that counts!

[fflump]

It is vastly overstated. I would email them to see whether they decide to rectify it.

If you dont then I will!

[Muswell Hillbilly]

It is vastly overstated. I would email them to see whether they decide to rectify it.

If you dont then I will!

I have contacted them through the on-line form for the property in question. I’ll let the forum know how I get on!

It’s quite a difference between £4,145 per square metre, according to the area that they give, and £6,484 per square metre, according to my calculated area. (For comparison, does anyone know what prime Manhattan or London W1 property cost at the height of the bubble?)

[fflump]

There are a few dodgy areas in W1.

Prime central London has been quoted at around £20,000 /m2

[Muswell Hillbilly]

I have contacted them through the on-line form for the property in question. I’ll let the forum know how I get on!

I had a call from somebody at Strutt and Parker, with an explanation, so full credit for them for responding quickly to the email that I sent yesterday evening.

If you look at the floorplan again, note that the master bedroom is shown with a length of 3.73 m, whereas in fact it must be the same length (minus the bay window) as the drawing room, which is shown as 6.86 m. So it is the room dimensions which are shown incorrectly. The agent suggested it was a cut-and-paste error on the part of the company which does the plans.

Apparently the home report gives an area of something like 137 m². The plans on the website include the garden store and the external stairs (!), thus bringing it up to the 149 m² shown.

[viewsonic]

I had a call from somebody at Strutt and Parker, with an explanation, so full credit for them for responding quickly to the email that I sent yesterday evening.

If you look at the floorplan again, note that the master bedroom is shown with a length of 3.73 m, whereas in fact it must be the same length (minus the bay window) as the drawing room, which is shown as 6.86 m. So it is the room dimensions which are shown incorrectly. The agent suggested it was a cut-and-paste error on the part of the company which does the plans.

Apparently the home report gives an area of something like 137 m². The plans on the website include the garden store and the external stairs (!), thus bringing it up to the 149 m² shown.

I have always wanted to live in a French Knocking shop, and I think this could be the next best thing. An absurdly overpriced flat. For this price you expect a decent garden, and a bigger space. They are off their heads.

[TTD]

"The plans on the website include the garden store and the external stairs"

The stairs..... that's a bit cheeky....

[fflump]

http://www.struttandparker.com/property-fo..._EDN090134.html

Ref: EDN09013411 South Lauder Road, Edinburgh, Midlothian, EH9 Offers over £525,000

This property has been on for months at OO585, now down to a still-ridiculous oo525.

I remember this place because a certain well-known troll claimed he had seen the property because he'd done some work on its refurbishment (tiling?) and that he was convinced it would sell quickly. guess not.

[fflump]

My chuckle for the day comes courtesy of Quartermile development:

http://www.espc.com/Buying/280061.html

Second Floor Flat, Fixed Price £350,000

The schedule is a work of comedy:

"An elegant light and airy generously proportioned public room"

Leaving aside the sub-GCSE standard of grammar, in an development which is a stone's throw from victorian tenements and their 24 ft living rooms, this verbal garbage is used to describe a room of dimensions 13'9'' x 10'9'' into which the living area AND dining/kitchen area are all shoe-horned!

This room seems to be rivalled only by the "master" bedroom 10'6'' x 9'9''.

No doubt I'm missing something and that some canny BTL investor will snap up this great opportunity...

[Scunnered]

My chuckle for the day comes courtesy of Quartermile development:

http://www.espc.com/Buying/280061.html

Second Floor Flat, Fixed Price £350,000

I've been wondering how long Quartermile will keep going for, but I just had a look at nethouseprices for places sold on SImpson Loan, and it's got 20 sales since April alone, several of them for over £800,000! Here's a link to the search results. What's going on?

[Paul77]

http://www.espc.co.uk/Buying/279024.html

In The Region Of £300,000

I can see it from my window.

12 months ago advertised as "unique opportunity" 350k OO.

[Muswell Hillbilly]

http://www.espc.co.uk/Buying/279024.html

In The Region Of £300,000

I can see it from my window.

12 months ago advertised as "unique opportunity" 350k OO.

To me in Marchmont, in the region of 300k for a ‘wee hoose’ on its own plot of land with a big garden looks like a steal!

Tenement flat for nearly half a million quid, anyone?

[pyracantha]

To me in Marchmont, in the region of 300k for a ‘wee hoose’ on its own plot of land with a big garden looks like a steal!

Tenement flat for nearly half a million quid, anyone?

Ah, but just think about how you could linger in the doorway as you entered the property. Sorry, saw the repeat of Locationx3 in Edinburgh with Tamsin and Rupert or whatever the yuppie victims were called.

[Scunnered]

To me in Marchmont, in the region of 300k for a ‘wee hoose’ on its own plot of land with a big garden looks like a steal!

Tenement flat for nearly half a million quid, anyone?

It's got a vestibule and a fireplace, so £460,000 sounds quite reasonable. Interestingly, nethouseprices says that that flat last sold in March 2005, for £401,275, so that's only a 15% increase in 4 1/2 years. That would almost be a reasonable level of inflation if we weren't starting from an already-inflated basepoint.

[fflump]

It's got a vestibule and a fireplace, so £460,000 sounds quite reasonable. Interestingly, nethouseprices says that that flat last sold in March 2005, for £401,275, so that's only a 15% increase in 4 1/2 years. That would almost be a reasonable level of inflation if we weren't starting from an already-inflated basepoint.

As someone who rents a maindoor in Marchmont, the prices commanded for these places never ceases to amaze me, even in the context of Edinburgh property prices.

[roblpm]

I looked at this flat when it was on sale the last time. It is nearly 2000 sq feet i think. Grotty garden and opposite gillespies so probably have teenagers smoking in the front garden. However its a great flat! We bought a bungalow in greenbank, great garden but tiny inside in comparison!

[roblpm]

Looked a lot nice when we looked at it!! Students been living in it since!!

Whats the student rent per person? Rental yield? 5 students!